if it's thursday, meeting with putin. president biden returns home where he faces urgent questions about his domestic priorities. where will he come down on a new bipartisan infrastructure deal. plus another major day of action on capitol hill. a senate republican and house democrat who are both at the center of the dealmaking today. from infrastructure to a vote on repealing the aumf both interviews coming up. and reaction to the big news out of the supreme court today as a court remade in trump's image still upholds obama care,

again, for now. in its biggest decision of the term. what it means and what it doesn't, also ahead. welcome to a pretty busy thursday. "meet the press daily" i'm chuck todd. the reaction continues to spill in upholding obama care. the third time that the roberts court has upheld the law, but a ruling that will not save the law from future attempts to undermine it perhaps. we will have a lot more on that story coming up in the hour. but we'll begin with some major decisions facing president biden. fresh off his diplomatic swing through europe and his meeting with putin he now faces what you could call some urgent domestic diplomacy here at home at least inside the democratic coalition. as the white house faces increasing pressure from progressives to abandon talks with republicans, a group of 21

senators from sort of the center of this current u.s. senate, 11 republicans and 10 democrats say that they've come to an agreement on a framework for a deal on infrastructure. that's 20% of the senate. it looks like it could be somewhere in the ballpark of around 1 trillion. we're not entirely sure because they haven't released that framework just yet. still to get the support of 11 republicans would there retically be enough to overcome the filibuster and lose one senate democrat. it's unclear whether profwresers are behind this deal or to get on board might demand guarantees on a separate package. that package would not require senator support but require joe manchin's backing and that could be a whole other can of worms for the democrats and president biden. speaking of manchin after saying he cannot support the sweeping rights voting overhauls he did put out a package that says can get support and that package got

a huge boost with the backing from voting rights activist stacy abrams. tries to navigate the internal dynamics of the progressive caucus that is extremely wary and then a group of moderates like joe manchin who are extremely wary of pending to the more partisan voices, frankly, on other side. what does president biden do? the decisions he makes could have ripple effects through everything on the democrats' legislative agenda. let's unpack this. joining me now on capitol hill also with us is nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt and just sitting in for andrea mitchell and had an interesting interview with senator tester. let's set the parameters on the hill today. give me the sense. we got 21 senators signing on. that looks like momentum to me.

>> that's right, chuck. big diplomacy on the home front as he comes in on the infrastructure piece. the 11 republicans onboard will create an important decision for democrats to make. firstly, they have to make sure that the 11 republicans who are supporting this framework are actually going to be supportive of an overall package with details. right now they don't have much. they have a price tag, including new spending and baseline spending and they have a hand shake agreement not to do it. if 11 republicans are there, it is going to put pressure on the biden white house to cut a deal with republicans. but as you point out, he is facing increased anxiety from democrats on the other end of the caucus not just the aocs but senator chuck shawmschumer that could not be used a basis of

jensen and a multi-trillion package of president biden's other priorities including investment and tackling climate change, health care and that sort of thing. these are happening on parallel tracks right now and depending on how the bipartisan package works out democrats will decide to do their own way or do their own way entirely. >> all right, kasie, you're as good of a mcconnell reader as there is. i'm curious, if mcconnell knows that the deal schumer and biden have cut with manchin is, okay, we're all in on this and then go back for more later and manchin is all in on that. does mcconnell then essentially go and i'm looking at, let's put the list back up here. there are certain senate republicans on this list that if mcconnell says, hey, back off, you and i are not going to name names but i'm looking at it, five of them in there that are friendly to leadership. if mcconnell said get off of

this, they would. what are the chances of that? >> i think it's possible, chuck. but, you know, i also think there are some signs that joe manchin is getting a little bit frustrated with some of the way that republicans are handling themselves. you saw that in some of the leaked video that came out last night that had him talking about potential filibuster changes that he has been careful not to do in public. if you consider it in those terms, you could see potentially mcconnell being willing to say, okay, fine, go along with this bipartisan plan so that at least they have something to point to that says, okay, we're not blanket obstructing absolutely everything. there's a reason why there are so many republicans involved in these negotiations. i think they know this is very popular. americans want to do a lot of these fixes and it will help grow an economy that is still in

some ways struggling to bounce back from the covid-19 pandemic. i think there is a need there to do that. but that said, you know, you already got bernie sanders now coming out and saying, okay, we're going to do the two-track approach and i'm going to do the budget and it will cost us $6 trillion. that's a huge number. moderate democrats said, i don't know about that. including senator jon tester with me just a couple minutes ago. there's a lot, i think, of back and forth and politicking to be done here before we see the end of the tunnel. >> i want to pivot to voting rights. the manchin framework here. everybody is on the same page. he wants to make election day a public holiday and 15 consecutive days for early voting and gerrymandering and require voter i.d. with alternatives like utility bills so it's not just your driver's license but a proof of residency, if you will, with a utility bill. let me play what stacy abrams

said earlier today on another network. >> what senator mansion is putting forward are some basic building blocks that we need to ensure that democracy is accessible no matter your geography. those provisions that he is setting forth are strong ones that will create level playing field, create standards that do not vary from state to state and i think will ensure that every american has improved access to the right to vote despite the onslot striking to restrict access to vote. >> sahil, your ear to the ground when it comes to the progressives. i think very intune with them. that's a big deal. getting behind manchin. does this change the calculus on what we affectionately call hr1. >> opens a world where democrats can get 50 out of their 50 members to at least begin debate

on the legislation. the key point here is that manchin is not specifically behind the hr1 piece of legislation and no explicit package that he is getting behind but amending the bill in a way that would win his support. now, of course, the real battle here is about the filibuster. if democrats get 50 of their 50 members on board they still need 60 to begin support and democrats would much rather have this fail with 50 votes than with 49 votes so they could point to republicans and say they're the reason this is not moving. manchin shifting from saying i want bipartisanship, i'm not going to support a voting rights bill that doesn't have republican support and outlining specific policies is a huge change in the debate because it gives democrats an opening with regard to voter i.d. i spoke to senator rafael and i asked if that could be a deal breaker and he said, no. he has never been opposed to voter i.d. but done in a way that is not designed to be restrictive. the door appears to be open,

chuck. >> the identification that you're allowed to bring that becomes the sticking point. kasie hunt, could the murkowski, romney, collins wing of the senate get behind something like, you know, i mean joe manchin and susan collins are very close personally. could he win at least three or four republicans over with this? >> i'm skeptical, chuck, partly because mitch mcconnell has come out and called this compromise this outline from joe manchin rotten. and the reason for that is that it would actually set federal standards for elections. and that really as opposed to states having control over it the foundation of the bottom of this debate and i think it's really hard to bring republicans along in this environment on this question. that's a pretty dramatic shift from previous decades where the parties were willing to work together to a certain extent on these kinds of voter protections.

but it's really become an existential issue. each sees this as their path to -- they want to frame it. in reality this is a fight of over who is most likely to hold power in the future. so, i just think they may get lisa murkowski, but i would be surprised if it went much beyond that. >> other than maybe complaining about gerrymandering because they have such an advantage right now in the legislature. everything else here is one of those, how is that partisan type of head scratching conversations there. but we shall see and we shall see how it plays going forward. sahil, kasie, thank you both. joining me now is congresswoman barbara lee. congresswoman lee, it is always good to talk to you. let me start with the infrastructure conversation. i think about your career and think about you always talk about the person you replaced, you both want to get big things done and you want to make

incremental progress. does this fall into the category for you, you take what you can get or do you think you can fight for this bigger package? what is your advice to your fellow progressives? >> sure. thank you, chuck. i think we have to fight for a big and bold package. when you look at the fact that the president and the democrats in the senate have been negotiating, yes that is ideal. at this point we have to go big, we have to go bold and the house and the senate and the white house and, yes, negotiations are extremely important and the economy to focus on and our elder care and child care and health care issues and all of this should be in one package because all of this speaks to the needs and aspirations of the american people. >> does it become, can you not support the idea of a two-track situation where, let's be

realistic, track one may happen, but track two may not. >> we have to have the commitment if we went for track one, you have to have a solid commitment that track two will be supported. this is about people's lives and quality of lives and we're coming out of a pandemic and people's economic security needs to be addressed and the infrastructure of this country needs to be addressed. so we can't have one versus the other. so, we have to have an iron clad commitment that if it were two track that we would be able to pass the second bill. >> so, it sounds like you have an open mind on this compromise package if you had a guarantee that from at least the 50 democrats that all 50 senate democrats are on board with the bigger package. >> well, chuck, i don't know what's in this new proposal. i would have to look at it and see but i tell you if it's not big and it's not bold and it doesn't address the needs of people, if it doesn't address lifting people out of poverty and if it doesn't have the

revenue piece to it and if it doesn't address the middle income people in terms of their security, if it doesn't address workers security and climate. i'm not sure what is it in and i can't say i will support it until i see it. but i do know we must have the provisions around climate and we must have health care and all the other reasonable provisions that progressives and others, many others, the majority of people in our country say that, yes, they want a big package. that's where we have to get to. >> all right. your reaction to the joe manchin statement on his sort of voting rights compromise that he laid out. stacy abrams support for that compromise includes, you know, some definition of voter i.d., getting rid of partisan gerrymandering and things like that. is that a baseline that you think is worth fighting for? >> we shouldn't have to

compromise on our fundamental rights of democracy. fundamental right to vote. as stacy abrams said this was a building block and certainly is not comprehensive. we have the john lewis voting rights act and hr1 that has to be part of the discussion and part of the proposal moving forward. and so it's good to hear senator manchin talk about what his provision would be but we have to pass the now sb1 in the senate and the john lewis voting rights act and see how they work together. because we can't have one without the other. and, so listening to what stacy said, she said it was a building block and that's exactly what it is. it's a very reasonable building block but a small building block and we have to move towards full voter participation and end voter suppression and we must expand our voting rights and our democratic processes and we must stop this gerrymandering. >> all right, i have to ask you

about the topic we originally booked you on which is the repeal of the aumf. this is something you have been working on and we now have to say decades since it's been in existence for decades. what does this mean and what doesn't it mean because another aumf, if you will, on the books. >> sure. thanks for that question, check. i tell you, we received 49 republicans who voted for the repeal of the 2002 authorization to use force. if you remember that authorization was passed because we were told really the lies that there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq. there were none. and this has been on the books now, like you said, 20 years. it's time to get it off. i was pleased to get the statement of support from the presidents and he wants to move this on the senate floor quickly. so this is an important step towards moving to repeal in the

2001 authorization. because that was a blank check. it was passed right after the horrific attacks of 9/11. 60 words and just authorized the use of force forever. >> i would say some would argue it's the 2001 one that is more invoked than the 2002. would you agree? >> well, the 2001 several years ago the congressional research service gave us a declassified report. it had been used 41 times in about 19 countries. but the 2002, remember, president donald trump used it for the attack on general salimani and that had nothing to do with iraq or weapons of mass destruction. finally we just said both of these authorizations should be repealed because only 58 members of congress, 83, 84% members of congress serving today were not here in 2001 and 2002.

so, the voice of the people need to be heard on these great matters of war and peace. that's our constitutional responsibility. do we authorize or not the use of force. if we need to replace them, then we'll work on the criteria, the sunset, the mission and congress will debate and decide whether or not to authorize or not. >> congresswoman barbara lee, democrat from the oakland, california, area. thank you for coing on and sharing your perspective with us. >> my pleasure. in just a couple hours president biden is expected to sign a bill into law officially declaring june 19th juneteenth as a federal holiday commemorating the end of slavery. a historic moment on the house floor when housemakers voted overwhelmingly. cheers could be heard on the house floor. take a listen. >> on this vote the yeas are 415. and the nays are 14. the bill is passed.

>> msnbc will bring you the live coverage of the presidential signing. later this afternoon. coming up, i'm going to get republican senator todd young's take on the president's meeting with putin. he is one of those 11 republicans. later, the conservative-leaning supreme court just upheld obamacare, again. still some liberals are worried this will be the best day the court will give them for years to come. when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪

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welcome back. both before and after yesterday's summit many republicans were a bit critical of president biden from even meeting with vladimir putin. kevin mccarthy accused him of offering a weak response and at the same time president biden appears to be getting key republican support from one of the top items on his domestic

agenda, that's infrastructure. 11 support the bipartisan deal that would cost $1 trillion and they say would not raise taxes on corporations or wealthy americans and also on the aumf there is bipartisan support. todd young of indiana is one of the 11 republican senators. he joins me now. senator, i feel like i basically want to have a similar interview that i just had with congresswoman lee on the same topics. let me actually start with the last topic we talked about with her and that is the aumf. you are at odds with your republican leader in the senate, senator mitch mcconnell believes repealing this was reckless and you're on the side of repealing it because it sends the signal that we're an ally of iraq. explain. >> so, i'm not at odds with anyone. i answer to the people of indiana. and i try and advance the interest of the men and women of our military. i enlisted the united states navy in 1990 within months we were literally headed towards

war with saddam hussein's regime in iraq. once again in 2002 saddam hussein's iraq is who we went to war against. now a partner of ours. it's really important that congress, once again, speaks to this issue. we reaffirm our constitutional obligation to speak on matters of war and peace and we let our war fighters in the future know that the american people are with them every time there is a military engagement as opposed to what of my colleagues authorized used to engage in a war or never authorized or intended by congress. >> how about the 2001 aumf would you like to see that repealed or revised? >> i would like to see it revised. so, it's essential that we have some sort of construct out there to fight nonstate actors. that is with the 2001 aumf

allows us to do. but congress, once again, needs to speak on this issue. it needs to assure that there's continuity of legal authorities as we repeal and replace the 2001 aumf and we also need to make sure it has a mechanism so that when there is a commitment in a new geography to say, fight isis or aqap, another terrorist group, then congress will be able to speak to that issue. so, yes. yes. >> how would you include, how would you tackle cyber in a revised version of that. nonstate actors right now it seems like some of the most dangerous ones to our infrastructure. the cyber terrorists. they're nonstate actors. maybe they're not. we can get to russia in a moment. but how would you deal with them in a revised aumf? >> well, right now they're, of course, very principled, legal

arguments about what constitutes an act of war against our critical infrastructure. i do think that it's important that the administration has made this a priority. this was a priority communicated by president biden to vladimir putin during their visit. i think it's essential that we make the critical investments as we did just days ago through the endless frontier act. my legislation that i worked with republicans and democrats alike so we can identify cyber attacks and who's responsible for them. every time we are punched, as it were through a cyber attack, we are prepared to punch back harder. i'm not sure that message was delivered by the president. there are things he can do to ensure that vladimir putin knows that we are prepared to hit him and hit him hard every time he makes a cybe attack against the united states. most notably he should be sanctioned and the north stream 2 pipeline beneficiaries who are

within his inner circle should also be sanctioned and i hope this administration takes that step. >> i'm curious on the putin summit, on one hand we can sit here and try to critique the theater of it, right? let me ask the question this way. when do you think it's fair to judge whether this summit was successful? right. is it three months down the road, six months down the road? obviously the president delivered some sort of private message to putin. he doesn't want to admit publicly on the cyber stuff. what will be the metric you're looking forward to seeing well maybe the two on two there was effective. >> yeah, you know we'll have to see what the future behavior of vladimir putin is. does he continue to knock off political opponents? does he engage in foreign leader assassination? does he continue to stir up military conflict in places like syria to provide the wherewithal

to terroristic regimes to those like iran. the future will, the fairly near future, i think, will veer out whether or not this was a successful visit. but i would say in the near term, there is something that could be done to send a stronger message and it deals with that pipeline being built from russia to germany which would allow russia to have more power over the western world, but it also sends a message to the russians by not sanctioning those actors involved that were not being as strong as we could be. >> if i googled the words russia and sanctions, i would get a lot of results. meaning, there would be a lot of hits. but, it doesn't look like we get a lot of results from the actions. meaning, it just seems like we've been sanctioning russia for ten years. why do you think it hasn't worked? >> you know, that's a fair point. i think it has.

i think it has worked in certain instances but, yeah, sanctions are not a perfect tool and they work better when we have allies and partners participating in those sanctions which is why i think it's important that we have a strong nato. one that i think that the administration intends to try and strengthen through our diplomacy. but also one that will be stronger militarily on some of the things in the administration. making sure our allies within nato spend up to 2% of their economy on military hardware so that we can be an effective force and our diplomacy is backed up with power. >> final question on infrastructure. how committed are you to this deal and the way i ask it is this, if democrats do plan to go it alone down the road for

something else, does that impact your ability to support this deal that you and 20 other senators have come to support? >> well, look, i will oppose any precommitment from the administration or congressional partners about having a second deal. but i think it's my obligation to work together in a bipartisan way to come up with a more targeted and fiscally responsible hard infrastructure package which is what we've done without increasing any taxes. this is merely a frame, with. this is a plan. and it's a plan that i hope we remain somewhat faithful to but we're open to new ideas and i think this is the best chance to deliver to the american people responsible infrastructure package. those other matters. the human infrastructure, the care economy ought to be dealt with through regular order and committees of jurisdiction and you're speaking to a u.s. senate

that has some good solutions as it relates to reducing the cost of child care and housing affordability and those need to be considered. >> senator, how many more republicans you think could support this infrastructure deal? have you gotten positive feedback from others? >> oh, i have. i believe that the framework we've laid out, which, again, i would not characterize as a deal, but i really strong possibility. it's a historic investment under the framework without raising taxes and core infrastructure. but i do think we get the votes. i think we get the votes to pass it out of the senate. i think, ultimately, with presidential leadership, it passes out of the house and is signed into law. >> senator todd young, republican from indiana. thank you for coming on and sharing your views. >> thanks so much. still ahead, what would a full-scale cyberwar look like and is the u.s. military ready for it? with millions still not vaccinated sounding the alarm as

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obama care and brought by the state of texas invalidating the law did not have standing. the court was clear this was not obamacare itself but upholds as it is and tementdemocrats are c it a win. >> today's supreme court decision is a landmark victory for democrats work to defend protections for people with pre-existing conditions. >> so let me say definitively, the affordable care act has won, the supreme court has just ruled the aca is here to stay. >> our justice correspondent pete williams joins me now. pete, let me start with this. why did the supreme court take a case that didn't have standing in the first place? >> well, they try not to do that, but they did, i mean, that was really the question in the case. i think there must have been four conservatives who thought they did have standing. they didn't carry the day. only two members of the court said they would have taken the case and decided on the merits.

the original obamacare law had a tax penalty and then congress took the tax penalty away. what the supreme court said is there is still an individual mandate but you can't show states of texas and others who sued. the states said maybe without the tax more people could buy it and the supreme court rejected that argument. so, it's not a ruling on the merit, you're right. it does reject this claim and in theory leaves obamacare right to be challenged another day and not on this theory. somebody would have to come up with an entirely new argument and it does seem like the legal challenges have sort of run out of gas on this. >> that's what i'm curious. feels like we don't have a term without one. do you think we'll have one next year? >> i don't think there is another one in the pipeline that the supreme court would take next term or even in the coming two terms. i wonder if the legal is closed

here. >> what is the significance of that? >> the significance of that is it's a very narrow ruling. this was a dispute between catholic social services which said it would not send foster children to same-sex parents to their homes. the city sued and said that violates our nondiscrimination contract. now, the catholic social services said to the supreme court, give us a broad ruling. say that there's always a religious freedom exception to nondiscrimination laws and the court didn't go that far and said catholic social services wins this case because of the narrow way in which the city administered the contract. so, it's not going to have a wider effect on county clerks that refuse to issue marriage licenses or bakers who refuse to make cakes for same-sex weddings. >> you never get to take vacation in june. what is coming next that you're most anticipating? >> three decisions next week, by the way, chuck. the court has just said on monday, wednesday and friday. we're still waiting for the case that i think maybe a lot of

people are interested in about whether schools can punish children for what they call off campus. remember this is the young woman who sent the saucy little tweet or internet message about getting kicked off the cheerleading team and then most interest, i think, to your viewers is that the court will probably set the rules for deciding when states violate the constitution when they change voting laws. so that could be a big one. that is the one out of arizona everyone is watching for. >> that is interesting considering all the laws and rule changes we're seeing take place in the state level. pete williams, supreme court month, man. thank you. >> okay. up next, the biden administration is making a renewed push to get more people vaccinated as the more contagious and more severe delta variant becomes a lot more prominent right here in the united states. your energy. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients...

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we're back. coronavirus cases and deaths are

at their lowest averages since march of 2020, according to the cdc. but officials are continuing to encourage those who are not vaccinated to get the shot as a more severe covid variant is threatening to become dominant in the united states. it now counts for 10% of cases in the united states up from 6% last week, according to the cdc. that's nearly double. you can start to do the math. anyway, joining me now infectious disease physician and doctor at boston university center for emerging infectious diseases and research and also an msnbc medical contributor. it seems pretty simple scientific fact these days those that are hospitalized seem to be the ones not vaccinated. there seems to be a direct collation now between those getting severe cases of covid and their vaccination status. what can we do? >> yeah, chuck, a few months ago you and i talked about the race between the variants and the

vaccines and it seems like we're there again. because this delta variant appears to be more transmissible and twice as many hospitalizations. twice as more likely to get hospitalized if you get infected with this and younger people are getting infected and people are getting sicker quicker. and people who only had one dose are potentially not getting as much coverage as they would have with the variant we saw last year. so, here's the concern. get vaccinated. two things. if you're not vaccinated, get vaccinated. the concern in the united states is that since we have been following uk's trajectory, they have seen delta variant become more than 90% of the new cases and we're going to see that here. delta is going to become dominant and then the areas that have low vaccination rates may see surges. but as an individual what this tells me is that if you've only gotten one dose, go back for that second dose. if you got a two dose vaccine because that gives you more complete protection.

>> you know, right now we have a map on screen right now of vaccination rates and i'm looking at a very light blue area in the deep south. it's a pretty consistent. what would you be telling the administration to do, governors of those states to do. i mean is this arm-to-arm combat, you know, if you will. because it just looks like that is a highly vulnerable region to this variant. >> it is. you and i in the past have talked about how this is aligning with political beliefs and i think this information is targeted and it is the ground game and, you know, the biden administration has started investing in the ground game to try to remove to get people vaccinated. those are also some of the states that are seeing the most amount of undercutting of their local and state health infrastructure. yes, there may be politics and some of it might be hesitancy

that is driven through this information, but i think one of the long-term efforts is to make sure that those states also have stronger public health infrastructure so they can get those vaccines when it is needed with this pandemic or the next one. >> i have to ask you about the commitments that sounded good from the g7 and from, but feel as if when you think about the severity of the delta variant, a billion doses, you know, there's -- that's not going to vaccinate the world. what is this delta variant and our ability to vaccinate the world over the next six months? what are we staring at here? >> we're already staring down the barrel. i mean, chuck, i work in places like uganda and my heart breaks because over the last two weeks uganda lost ten or i'm sorry, nine physicians and that's a country that is the size of the state of massachusetts. and it has fewer doctors to begin with. you're seeing that in places like liberia and we're losing front line health care workers

and losing vulnerable people in countries around the world. as this disease transmits, the threat back to us here in the united states of these new variants continue. the trouble with the g7 commitments and i'm glad we took the first step. not the number, one billion is a start but the way the commitments are made. the next six months matter. many of those commitments and many of those vaccines may not come through until 2022 and i think that's devastating to many of the health care systems that are getting affected right now. the resilience in return from that is difficult and going to come back to bite us because of the new variants, as well. >> always great to get your perspective, as well as your expertise. i appreciate it. thank you. up next, we got a sneak peek at our new episode of our streaming show "meet the press reports" and how the pentagon is preparing for a war that could begin in cyberspace or even outer space. that's next.

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♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪ welcome back. if it's thursday, it means these days we've got a brand new episode of "meet the press reports." it will stream tonight and on peacock tomorrow. we're taking a dive into the future of the military and the future of war, taking a look at how conflicts will be fought but frankly where. we've got a first look on how the pentagon is preparing in

what a full-scale cyber war might look like. take a look. >> reporter: the u.s. might not know for days whether it's facing an attack or a malfunction. the opening salvo in a conflict could be underway before the u.s. knows they've been hit or who is behind it. >> if you look at the chinese military doctrine, the first hours and days would be focused on large-scale cyberattacks against our critical infrastructure here at home to try to prevent military bases from sending forces out into the region and also in space to prevent us from being able to communicate, to see, to target, to command control. >> reporter: here on earth, a cyberattack against a critical infrastructure could disrupt the electrical grid, transportation networks, or the flow of financial networks. possible acts of war without a single shot fired. >> u.s. cyber defenses are not adequate today. >> reporter: retired admiral

james stavridis served in the military. >> we have to look at our own cyber tools being sharp because that creates deterrence. this is a new era of warfare unfolding before our eyes in this 21st century. weaver got work to do. >> reporter: another concern, targeting satellites that create a conflict. do you think the next cyber war could occur in space? >> if they do target space, i would think we would see it in space before the land and sea domains. >> one of the great cliches that people use whether it's in sports politics or the military is, you don't want to prepare to fight the last war, you want try to know where you're headed for the next one. and the reason we wanted to do this, courtney, because we've been talking here. it still looks like the pentagon

spends a lot more time and money preparing for conventional warfare that seems less and less likely all the time. >> that's right. we literally heard about this today during one of the budget hearings before the senate appropriations committee. general milley, when they were talking about this $750 billion budget that they have, one of the senators was saying, well, what are some of the things you need? there's so much money there must be waste here. he said, yeah, you know, we can't keep facing machine guns when we're on horses. we need to move forward. we need to adapt. we need to look at ai, artificial intelligence, robotics, hypersonics. if the u.s. wants to be ready and deter future aggression and be able to compete in the future conflict, then they need to move past some of these legacy systems and really invest in future technology. >> what's your sense of what sort of -- i mean, i do sense that the leadership of the

pentagon knows this. the leadership in congress knows this. is it the inertia, dairy say dwight eisenhower called it the complex? >> you have a manufacturing plant, and if they stop manufacturing -- the a-10 is an aircraft that's been talked about for years now about discontinuing, and there was so much opposition in congress to stop building it because jobs would be lost. i mean, these are people's livelihoods. so members go to these hearings and they say we can't get rid of these programs and these platforms, we need to maintain them. and it puts the pentagon in a difficult position, because they'll take things out and the members of congress will try to put them back in. when you look at this massive budget they've just requested under the biden administration, if you really want to compete, they need to invest more.

it's also difficult to look at it when you're a member of congress because you're saying, boy, we're putting millions of dollars into a program that's not going to be ready for years, still, and that's not how you get ready for a conflict, chuck. >> but china building a space station, doing their thing. is that the impetus that, for instance, gives the space force branch or the pentagon in general more talking points to get what they need? >> it's one of the things. it's not just that china -- they've been investing in space. and the concern is not just that if something like them having a space station up there, but they have anti-satellite missiles. they are really turning, and russia and iran, they've really turned space into a contested environment and the u.s. needs to be ready for that. it's not that they could fire a missile off and it could end up in a satellite, but they could put debris into space that would

threaten assets up there. it's a dangerous place out there right now, chuck. >> courtney, it's a terrific reported piece you gave us. we just gave you a glimpse. we're going to have admiral mike mullen, paul rykoff among others. please check it out. you can stream the "meet the press report" tonight and on peacock tomorrow. we'll be back tomorrow on "mtp daily." geoff bennett picks it up right after this break. after this break voiceover: riders. wanderers on the road of life. the journey is why they ride. when the road is all you need, there is no destination. uh, i-i'm actually just going to get an iced coffee. well, she may have a destination this one time, but usually -- no, i-i usually have a destination.

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it's good to be with you. i'm geoff bennet and as we come on the air we have action from a major court ruling. the justices for the first time in a decade rejected the attempt to take down obamacare. the ruling was 7-2 with only conservative justices rub